APAC21 - Revision history

Merv at 05:35, 21 June 2009

2009-06-21T05:35:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:35, 21 June 2009
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	\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]		\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC157\|'''chapter eight]]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC183\|'''excursus G''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv at 21:11, 13 April 2009

2009-04-13T21:11:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:11, 14 April 2009
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	:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, [[~~Clisby~~\|LO, Clisby 012 [5] ]].</ref> In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>		:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, [[Clisby012\|LO, Clisby 012 [5] ]].</ref> In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>

Jan: /* No lack of volunteers */

2009-03-30T08:04:21Z

No lack of volunteers

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:04, 30 March 2009
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	:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, ~~LO,~~ [[Clisby\|012 [5] ]].</ref> In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>		:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, [[Clisby\|LO, Clisby 012 [5] ]].</ref> In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>

Jan: /* No lack of volunteers */

2009-03-29T20:02:21Z

No lack of volunteers

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:02, 30 March 2009
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	:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, LO, [[Clisby\|012 [5] ]]. In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>		:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, LO, [[Clisby\|012 [5] ]].</ref> In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>

Jan: /* No lack of volunteers */

2009-03-29T20:00:45Z

No lack of volunteers

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:00, 30 March 2009
Line 14:		Line 14:


	:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60. </ref> Champagnat seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>		:Champagnat had agreed to the participation of the Brothers. Pompallier asked him to propose three or four of them, out of whom they could together choose two. The formal appointment could then be finalized between the archbishop, being their ecclesiastical superior, and Colin, whom Champagnat considered to be their religious superior.<ref> OM I, doc. 370 [4]. For Champagnat the priests and the Brothers were members of the same congregation and thus to be sent as members of the same team, sent out by the same Society, cf. Sester, ''Lettres de Marcellin J.B. Champagnat'' (LC), doc. 65: '' ‘nous envoyons cinq de nos prêtres et deux de nos frères’''. Canonically Colin had no say over the Brothers, not before and not after the papal approbation of the priests’ branch. His position towards them was ambiguous and he was not always careful with the limits of his authority, which led to some painful situations, cf. below, p. 76, and CS, docs. 58 [5] & 60.</ref> There was great enthusiasm among the Brothers. Luzy wrote a few months later: ‘There would have been more than a hundred from the Hermitage but for the superior saying: don’t push me; nobody goes unless I choose him’.<ref> ''Lettres Luzy'' (LL), Luzy to his parents, 08.10.36. Also, Marie-Nizier to the Brothers in the Hermitage, 10.10.39, LO, [[Clisby\|012 [5] ]]. In other words, Champagnat reserved the right to choose whom he considered suitable. He seems to have taken his time, because on 11 April Colin had to urge him on.<ref> OM I, doc. 380.</ref>

Merv at 07:27, 15 December 2008

2008-12-15T07:27:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:27, 15 December 2008
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	\|[[APAC142\|'''excursus E''']]		\|[[APAC142\|'''excursus E''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv at 03:44, 20 September 2008

2008-09-20T03:44:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:44, 20 September 2008
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	\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]		\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC119\|'''chapter seven]]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC140\|'''excursus D''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC142\|'''excursus E''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv: /* No lack of volunteers */

2008-04-13T09:24:43Z

No lack of volunteers

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 13 April 2008
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	:That Colin was somehow involved in the selections is clear from the fact that he kept back Jean Forest.<ref> FS, doc. 172 [14]. cf. OM IV, pp. 282f.		:That Colin was somehow involved in the selections is clear from the fact that he kept back Jean Forest.<ref> FS, doc. 172 [14]. cf. OM IV, pp. 282f.
	</ref> In Belley Colin would have had even more of a say. There he turned down Jean-Claude Deschamps, because, when he asked Colin to be sent to Oceania, he insisted on an answer within eight days. Enough for Colin to answer: ‘Well, in that case, you will not go at all’.<ref> Kerr, op. cit. p. 299 n. 13. Kerr and the ''Origines Maristes'' (OM IV, pp. 264 f.) may be right in thinking that this refusal refers to a later date. In any case, Deschamps did not join the Marist retreat and he was not professed with the other priests in September, but writing from Valparaiso in July, Chanel believed that he was at the Capucinière, cf. Rozier, ''Écrits de S. Pierre Chanel'' (EC), doc. 37 [13]. In March 1837 he was preaching parish missions as a ''prêtre mariste'', cf. Greiler, ''Colin Studies II'', p. 57. </ref> In the choice of the Brothers too Colin was involved. We know that, in the case of Brother Marie-Nizier Delorme, Colin warned there could be problems because of the fact that Marie-Nizier was not yet of age.<ref> Bataillon to Colin, 25-10-36, LRO, doc. 3 [5] '' ‘suivant votre prévision’. ''</ref>		</ref> In Belley Colin would have had even more of a say. There he turned down Jean-Claude Deschamps, because, when he asked Colin to be sent to Oceania, he insisted on an answer within eight days. Enough for Colin to answer: ‘Well, in that case, you will not go at all’.<ref> Kerr, op. cit. p. 299 n. 13. Kerr and the ''Origines Maristes'' (OM IV, pp. 264 f.) may be right in thinking that this refusal refers to a later date. In any case, Deschamps did not join the Marist retreat and he was not professed with the other priests in September, but writing from Valparaiso in July, Chanel believed that he was at the Capucinière, cf. Rozier, ''Écrits de S. Pierre Chanel'' (EC), doc. 37 [13]. In March 1837 he was preaching parish missions as a ''prêtre mariste'', cf. Greiler, ''Colin Studies II'', p. 57. </ref> In the choice of the Brothers too Colin was involved. We know that, in the case of Brother Marie-Nizier Delorme, Colin warned there could be problems because of the fact that Marie-Nizier was not yet of age.<ref> Bataillon to Colin, 25-10-36, [[Girard0003\|LRO, doc. 3]] [5] '' ‘suivant votre prévision’. ''</ref>


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	:Around that time a third Brother (from Belley) had been added to the group.		:Around that time a third Brother (from Belley) had been added to the group.


	=== Notes ===		=== Notes ===

Merv: /* Notes */

2008-04-13T09:23:55Z

Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:23, 13 April 2008
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	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC100\|'''excursus B''']]		\|[[APAC100\|'''excursus B''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC101\|'''chapter six]]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv at 07:39, 12 February 2008

2008-02-12T07:39:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:39, 12 February 2008
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	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC81\|'''chapter five''']]		\|[[APAC81\|'''chapter five''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC100\|'''excursus B''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]