APAC35 - Revision history

Merv at 05:39, 21 June 2009

2009-06-21T05:39:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:39, 21 June 2009
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			\|[[APAC157\|'''chapter eight]]
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	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Jan: /* Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course */

2009-02-24T11:22:09Z

Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course

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	:But to get a man so loyal to Rome, to go against established Roman practice, there must have been more to it. At the background, and what probably tipped the scales, can only have been that Colin, always ~~wary~~ of his own feelings, was attempting the impossible to build a ~~trustful~~ relationship. He was leaning backwards not to give any opening for discord.		:But to get a man so loyal to Rome, to go against established Roman practice, there must have been more to it. At the background, and what probably tipped the scales, can only have been that Colin, always distrustful of his own feelings, was attempting the impossible to build a facile relationship. He was leaning backwards not to give any opening for discord.

Merv at 07:25, 15 December 2008

2008-12-15T07:25:09Z

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Merv at 03:40, 20 September 2008

2008-09-20T03:40:04Z

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	\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]		\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]
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			\|[[APAC119\|'''chapter seven]]
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			\|[[APAC140\|'''excursus D''']]
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	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Jan: /* Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course */

2008-07-02T19:09:20Z

Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:09, 3 July 2008
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	:Of course, there is common sense in Colin’s decision. He was dealing with a small group of eight men. Nobody could guess where and how they would be able to establish themselves. Difficult choices would have to be made. The obvious thing was to put all authority into one hand. Father Coudrin had done the same with the first group he sent to Hawaii in 1826 by allowing Fr. Alexis Bachelot to continue in his function of religious superior when he was appointed prefect apostolic. However, when the Picpus Fathers started their mission in the islands of the south-east Pacific, in 1833, under Bishop Rouchouze, Coudrin appointed Fr. Liausu to be the religious superior.<ref> Wiltgen, op, cit., p. 20 & 90.</ref> ~~Nothing in the available documents shows that~~ Colin ~~knew about~~ the way Coudrin had handled the question. ~~Nor did~~ he~~, as far as we know, try~~ to find out. But Colin ~~did know~~ about the regular Roman procedure, and still, he followed his own intuition.		:Of course, there is common sense in Colin’s decision. He was dealing with a small group of eight men. Nobody could guess where and how they would be able to establish themselves. Difficult choices would have to be made. The obvious thing was to put all authority into one hand. Father Coudrin had done the same with the first group he sent to Hawaii in 1826 by allowing Fr. Alexis Bachelot to continue in his function of religious superior when he was appointed prefect apostolic. However, when the Picpus Fathers started their mission in the islands of the south-east Pacific, in 1833, under Bishop Rouchouze, Coudrin appointed Fr. Liausu to be the religious superior.<ref> Wiltgen, op, cit., p. 20 & 90.</ref> We do not know if at this time Colin was aware of the way Coudrin had handled the question. There is no indication that he tried to find out. Five years later he certainly knew.<ref> Colin to Pompallier, 21.10.1841, CS, doc. 305 [6].</ref> But Colin knew about the regular Roman procedure, and still, he followed his own intuition.

Jan: /* Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course */

2008-06-27T09:32:06Z

Setting the Marist missions on an exceptional course

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:32, 27 June 2008
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	:Did Colin discuss it with Pompallier beforehand? Unlike the missionaries Pompallier repeatedly expressed his surprise. From Le Havre he reminded Colin that, as explained to him in Rome, it is ‘the Holy See itself that judges it appropriate for all missions staffed by religious, to establish two separate jurisdictions’. He now had to go against the instructions he got in Rome and showing his hesitation he wrote: ‘I don`t think I am going against the intentions of the Holy Father, when I accept this delegation’.<ref>05.11.1836, [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [4 & 6].</ref> A few months later, from Santa Cruz, Pompallier wrote to Fransoni: ‘I accepted the office, but let me know if I should give it up so that I then can be occupied exclusively with the mission’.<ref> Quoted from Wiltgen, op. cit., p. 131. Cf. Roach, op. cit., pp. 23 – 32.</ref> We must conclude that Colin did not discuss it with him beforehand and dropped it on him as a surprise. Pompallier accepted, gracefully and gratefully.<ref> [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [3]. </ref>		:Did Colin discuss it with Pompallier beforehand? Unlike the missionaries Pompallier repeatedly expressed his surprise. From Le Havre he reminded Colin that, as explained to him in Rome, it is ‘the Holy See itself that judges it appropriate for all missions staffed by religious, to establish two separate jurisdictions’. He now had to go against the instructions he got in Rome and showing his hesitation he wrote: ‘I don`t think I am going against the intentions of the Holy Father, when I accept this delegation’.<ref>05.11.1836, [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [4 & 6].</ref> A few months later, from Santa Cruz, Pompallier wrote to Fransoni: ‘I accepted the office, but let me know if I should give it up so that I then can be occupied exclusively with the mission’.<ref> Quoted from Wiltgen, op. cit., p. 131. Cf. Roach, op. cit., pp. 23 – 32.</ref> We must conclude that Colin did not discuss it with him beforehand and dropped it on him as a surprise. Pompallier accepted, gracefully and gratefully.<ref> [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [3]. </ref>



			:On 22 February 1837 from Santa Cruz, Tenerife,<ref> ACPF, Oceania vol. I, f. 389. Wiltgen, op. cit. p. 131.</ref> possibly repeating the earlier letter of 16 February, Pompallier asked Cardinal Fransoni: would it have been better not to accept the delegation? Evidently he was prepared to come back on his acceptance, should Rome consider his superiorship a hindrance to his work as a vicar apostolic.<ref> Kevin Roach, op, cit. p. 27, comments: ‘Fransoni did not do so for we find Colin instructing his subjects to regard the bishop not only as their ecclesiastical but also their religious superior’, whereby Roach overlooks that Colin did so in October 1836, four months before Pompallier’s letter to Fransoni. There is no evidence that Colin consulted Rome. </ref>



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	[[Image:Desk of Colin.jpg\|center]]		[[Image:Desk of Colin.jpg\|center]]


	=== Notes ===		=== Notes ===

Merv: /* Notes */

2008-04-13T09:28:40Z

Notes

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			\|[[APAC101\|'''chapter six]]
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			\|[[APAC116\|'''excursus C''']]
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	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv at 07:44, 12 February 2008

2008-02-12T07:44:14Z

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	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Merv: Protected "APAC35" [edit=sysop:move=sysop]

2008-01-16T21:27:57Z

Protected "APAC35" [edit=sysop:move=sysop]

← Older revision	Revision as of 09:27, 17 January 2008
(No difference)

Merv at 02:43, 16 January 2008

2008-01-16T02:43:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:43, 16 January 2008
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	:How exceptional was Colin`s decision, apart from appointing a non-professed to be superior? Ever since the erection of the Sacred Congregation ''De Propaganda Fide'' in 1622 it was policy of the Holy See to entrust where possible specific mission territories to religious institutes and to appoint, usually on recommendation of the superiors general, alongside of the religious superiors who up to that time had fulfilled the other role as well, separate ecclesiastical superiors directly answerable to the Holy See. This system of double, parallel jurisdiction, whereby the ecclesiastical superior directed the missionary activity and the religious superior guarded over the welfare of the religious missionaries, was explained in detail to Pompallier when he was in Rome to be consecrated a bishop.<ref> LRO, docs. 4 [6]. Cf. below: Excursus A, ''The Ius Commissionis and the Diarchy'', pp. 43f.</ref>		:How exceptional was Colin`s decision, apart from appointing a non-professed to be superior? Ever since the erection of the Sacred Congregation ''De Propaganda Fide'' in 1622 it was policy of the Holy See to entrust where possible specific mission territories to religious institutes and to appoint, usually on recommendation of the superiors general, alongside of the religious superiors who up to that time had fulfilled the other role as well, separate ecclesiastical superiors directly answerable to the Holy See. This system of double, parallel jurisdiction, whereby the ecclesiastical superior directed the missionary activity and the religious superior guarded over the welfare of the religious missionaries, was explained in detail to Pompallier when he was in Rome to be consecrated a bishop.<ref> [[Girard0004\|LRO, docs. 4]] [6]. Cf. below: [[APAC43\|Excursus A,]] ''The Ius Commissionis and the Diarchy'', pp. 43f.</ref>


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	:Did he discuss his decision with the men beforehand? The insistence with which, in the very same letter, he urged Pompallier to consult his missionaries would be less than sincere, if he had not done so himself on so crucial a matter. That he is not blind to the human realities of exercising authority, is evident when he reminds Pompallier that consulting the men ‘will interest them in your enterprises and foster unity’. He knows only too well that, a few years earlier, the community of Valbenoîte had preferred not to have Pompallier as its superior.<ref> Cf. [[APAC04\|above, p. 6.]]</ref> Moreover, in none of the replies of the men to Colin there is a hint of surprise at the arrangement. We can conclude that Chanel, Servant, Bret and Bataillon, who in any case may not all have shared Colin’s reservations about Pompallier, were consulted and were prepared to accept the arrangement. This would explain why there is only a casual reminder, at the end of Colin’s letter. They knew Pompallier, they were aware of his limits but seem to have been at ease with him. He had the impression that they felt free to give their points of view.<ref> LRO, doc. 6 [10].</ref>		:Did he discuss his decision with the men beforehand? The insistence with which, in the very same letter, he urged Pompallier to consult his missionaries would be less than sincere, if he had not done so himself on so crucial a matter. That he is not blind to the human realities of exercising authority, is evident when he reminds Pompallier that consulting the men ‘will interest them in your enterprises and foster unity’. He knows only too well that, a few years earlier, the community of Valbenoîte had preferred not to have Pompallier as its superior.<ref> Cf. [[APAC04\|above, p. 6.]]</ref> Moreover, in none of the replies of the men to Colin there is a hint of surprise at the arrangement. We can conclude that Chanel, Servant, Bret and Bataillon, who in any case may not all have shared Colin’s reservations about Pompallier, were consulted and were prepared to accept the arrangement. This would explain why there is only a casual reminder, at the end of Colin’s letter. They knew Pompallier, they were aware of his limits but seem to have been at ease with him. He had the impression that they felt free to give their points of view.<ref> [[Girard0006\|LRO, doc. 6]] [10].</ref>


	:Did Colin discuss it with Pompallier beforehand? Unlike the missionaries Pompallier repeatedly expressed his surprise. From Le Havre he reminded Colin that, as explained to him in Rome, it is ‘the Holy See itself that judges it appropriate for all missions staffed by religious, to establish two separate jurisdictions’. He now had to go against the instructions he got in Rome and showing his hesitation he wrote: ‘I don`t think I am going against the intentions of the Holy Father, when I accept this delegation’.<ref>05.11.1836, LRO, doc. 4 [4 & 6].</ref> A few months later, from Santa Cruz, Pompallier wrote to Fransoni: ‘I accepted the office, but let me know if I should give it up so that I then can be occupied exclusively with the mission’.<ref> Quoted from Wiltgen, op. cit., p. 131. Cf. Roach, op. cit., pp. 23 – 32.</ref> We must conclude that Colin did not discuss it with him beforehand and dropped it on him as a surprise. Pompallier accepted, gracefully and gratefully.<ref> LRO, doc. 4 [3]. </ref>		:Did Colin discuss it with Pompallier beforehand? Unlike the missionaries Pompallier repeatedly expressed his surprise. From Le Havre he reminded Colin that, as explained to him in Rome, it is ‘the Holy See itself that judges it appropriate for all missions staffed by religious, to establish two separate jurisdictions’. He now had to go against the instructions he got in Rome and showing his hesitation he wrote: ‘I don`t think I am going against the intentions of the Holy Father, when I accept this delegation’.<ref>05.11.1836, [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [4 & 6].</ref> A few months later, from Santa Cruz, Pompallier wrote to Fransoni: ‘I accepted the office, but let me know if I should give it up so that I then can be occupied exclusively with the mission’.<ref> Quoted from Wiltgen, op. cit., p. 131. Cf. Roach, op. cit., pp. 23 – 32.</ref> We must conclude that Colin did not discuss it with him beforehand and dropped it on him as a surprise. Pompallier accepted, gracefully and gratefully.<ref> [[Girard0004\|LRO, doc. 4]] [3]. </ref>