Girard0247 - Revision history

Merv at 02:03, 13 April 2017

2017-04-13T02:03:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:03, 13 April 2017
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	== 26 Mar 1843 - Fr Forest to Fr Colin, Bay of Islands ==		== 26 Mar 1843 - Fr Forest to Fr Colin, Bay of Islands ==

			'''[[APM]] Z 208 26 March 1843 '''


	''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' [[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation]]		''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' [[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation]]
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	''A large statue of Mary and the infant Jesus has caused great wonderment among the Maori.''		''A large statue of Mary and the infant Jesus has caused great wonderment among the Maori.''


			===Text of the Letter===


	~~'''[[APM]] Z 208 26 March 1843 '''~~

	:7th letter from New Zealand		:7th letter from New Zealand

Merv: /* Notes */

2017-03-21T03:50:15Z

Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:50, 21 March 2017
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	[[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation of the same letter]]		[[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation of the same letter]]


			{\|border=1; style="width:100%"
			\|+
			\|-bgcolor=lightblue
			\|[[Girard0246\|'''Previous LRO Letter''']]\|\| align=center \| [[Contents#1843\|'''LRO List of 1843 Letters''']] \|\| align=right\| [[Girard0248\|'''Next LRO letter''']]
			\|}

Merv at 01:57, 11 March 2017

2017-03-11T01:57:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:57, 11 March 2017
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	''Forest raises the matter of Father Petit-Jean’s letter, which he sees as intemperate, to an Auckland paper about what he alleges to have been unfair treatment by the New Zealand government in its refusing to give Father Petit-Jean a subsidy for building a chapel. Forest believes that the Bishop and M.Yvert, whom the Bishop has put in charge of temporalities, do not have a proper understanding of these things, which helps explain the difficult financial situation of the mission.''		''Forest raises the matter of Father Petit-Jean’s letter, which he sees as intemperate, to an Auckland paper about what he alleges to have been unfair treatment by the New Zealand government in its refusing to give Father Petit-Jean a subsidy for building a chapel. Forest believes that the Bishop and M.Yvert, whom the Bishop has put in charge of temporalities, do not have a proper understanding of these things, which helps explain the difficult financial situation of the mission.''

	''Forest says that the missionaries in NZ are one in heart and soul, but things seem not so in the tropical islands of the mission.		''Forest says that the missionaries in NZ are one in heart and soul, but things seem not so in the tropical islands of the mission. He says where the newly- arrived men are going, and something about the progress of the faith. Figures of the number of converts, (the Bishop’s) have been published in Europe and have been criticised as being exaggerated.''
	He says where the newly- arrived men are going, and something about the progress of the faith. Figures of the number of converts, (the Bishop’s) have been published in Europe and have been criticised as being exaggerated.''

	''He makes special mention of the situation of the Brothers. They generally are doing well, but have, like the Fathers, been crushed, a bit, by remarks from the Bishop, who sees them as servants, and, therefore, are not to eat at the same table as the priests. Some of the priests share this view – Fathers Comte and Petit are notable offenders he believes, but Father Petit-Jean and Pèzant the opposite. He makes brief comments on all the Brothers. He strongly believes that the Brothers should have a habit that distinguishes them not only from lay-people, but also from the priests. This would not just gain them more respect from lay-people, but would give them more pride in their own vocations.''		''He makes special mention of the situation of the Brothers. They generally are doing well, but have, like the Fathers, been crushed, a bit, by remarks from the Bishop, who sees them as servants, and, therefore, are not to eat at the same table as the priests. Some of the priests share this view – Fathers Comte and Petit are notable offenders he believes, but Father Petit-Jean and Pèzant the opposite. He makes brief comments on all the Brothers. He strongly believes that the Brothers should have a habit that distinguishes them not only from lay-people, but also from the priests. This would not just gain them more respect from lay-people, but would give them more pride in their own vocations.''

Merv at 01:56, 11 March 2017

2017-03-11T01:56:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:56, 11 March 2017
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	''He begins by listing the six letters he has already sent Colin, beginning from April 1842, just before landing in NZ. After a month recovering from illness, he spent June with Fathers Garin and Petit-Jean trying to find ways of decreasing the “enormous “ expenses incurred by the mission. The main thing done was to reduce staffing at Kororareka from 18 to 8, with some being sent elsewhere. He is quick to say that he had just given advice, the decisions were made by Garin and Petit-Jean. And the Bishop made no serious objection!''		''He begins by listing the six letters he has already sent Colin, beginning from April 1842, just before landing in NZ. After a month recovering from illness, he spent June with Fathers Garin and Petit-Jean trying to find ways of decreasing the “enormous “ expenses incurred by the mission. The main thing done was to reduce staffing at Kororareka from 18 to 8, with some being sent elsewhere. He is quick to say that he had just given advice, the decisions were made by Garin and Petit-Jean. And the Bishop made no serious objection!''

	''		''On 2 July he went to Auckland: to see the 500–odd Catholics there. He was able to do quite a bit even though his English was still limited. He also wanted to see the men going to Port Nicholson to set up a new mission there: Borjon, Rozet and Brother Deodat. Borjon and Deodat were sent off immediately, Rozet to be later. But he could now confirm as certain the news of Borjon’s and Deodat’s deaths at sea, near East Cape. He also wanted to visit the stations in the Bay of Plenty, but could not, for lack of funds. In his first interview with Forest, Pompallier bemoaned his lack of funds which he blamed on their being kept in France. Forest tried several times to disabuse him of this idea, but to no avail. Pompallier was also not happy about Forest’s status as “visitor”- he the Bishop, only, had the ability to “visit” the mission.''
	On 2 July he went to Auckland: to see the 500–odd Catholics there. He was able to do quite a bit even though his English was still limited. He also wanted to see the men going to Port Nicholson to set up a new mission there: Borjon, Rozet and Brother Deodat. Borjon and Deodat were sent off immediately, Rozet to be later. But he could now confirm as certain the news of Borjon’s and Deodat’s deaths at sea, near East Cape. He also wanted to visit the stations in the Bay of Plenty, but could not, for lack of funds. In his first interview with Forest, Pompallier bemoaned his lack of funds which he blamed on their being kept in France. Forest tried several times to disabuse him of this idea, but to no avail. Pompallier was also not happy about Forest’s status as “visitor”- he the Bishop, only, had the ability to “visit” the mission.''

	''However after some time tensions eased and at the end of December 1842 Forest was able to begin visiting the stations. He visited Auckland first, and was much impressed by what Father Petit-Jean had been able to do there in a few months. He met Mrs Louise Outhwaite, a Frenchwoman whose protestant husband worked at the Supreme Court, and was very generous to the Catholic mission. He sees Pèzant and Séon at Tauranga, and describes the “chateaux” in which the Marists live. He describes a little retreat that the Marists made there – Forest leading it. Séon and Pèzant get high praise as missionaries. Brother Euloge also gets praise. At Opotiki are Comte and Reignier. The difficulties of the bar entrance to the harbour are well described, and fervent prayers are needed. Comte gets high praise as a zealous missionary, but is seen to lack confidence in the Bishop, and Forest doesn’t have much effect in trying to show him otherwise. Their difficult living conditions are described, and what the missionaries need to take with them on a journey, particularly one without any Maori help. Problems in crossing rivers and harbours are demonstrated. The members of ASH would not be impressed favourably by the use of tobacco as currency! The problems associated with having to share a hut in a pa with the dogs which normally sleep in it; the lack of space, and the fleas!''		''However after some time tensions eased and at the end of December 1842 Forest was able to begin visiting the stations. He visited Auckland first, and was much impressed by what Father Petit-Jean had been able to do there in a few months. He met Mrs Louise Outhwaite, a Frenchwoman whose protestant husband worked at the Supreme Court, and was very generous to the Catholic mission. He sees Pèzant and Séon at Tauranga, and describes the “chateaux” in which the Marists live. He describes a little retreat that the Marists made there – Forest leading it. Séon and Pèzant get high praise as missionaries. Brother Euloge also gets praise. At Opotiki are Comte and Reignier. The difficulties of the bar entrance to the harbour are well described, and fervent prayers are needed. Comte gets high praise as a zealous missionary, but is seen to lack confidence in the Bishop, and Forest doesn’t have much effect in trying to show him otherwise. Their difficult living conditions are described, and what the missionaries need to take with them on a journey, particularly one without any Maori help. Problems in crossing rivers and harbours are demonstrated. The members of ASH would not be impressed favourably by the use of tobacco as currency! The problems associated with having to share a hut in a pa with the dogs which normally sleep in it; the lack of space, and the fleas!''

Merv at 01:13, 11 March 2017

2017-03-11T01:13:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:13, 11 March 2017
Line 2:		Line 2:

	''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' [[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation]]		''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' [[Clisby035\|Click here for Clisby's translation]]


			===Summary===
			''He begins by listing the six letters he has already sent Colin, beginning from April 1842, just before landing in NZ. After a month recovering from illness, he spent June with Fathers Garin and Petit-Jean trying to find ways of decreasing the “enormous “ expenses incurred by the mission. The main thing done was to reduce staffing at Kororareka from 18 to 8, with some being sent elsewhere. He is quick to say that he had just given advice, the decisions were made by Garin and Petit-Jean. And the Bishop made no serious objection!''

			''
			On 2 July he went to Auckland: to see the 500–odd Catholics there. He was able to do quite a bit even though his English was still limited. He also wanted to see the men going to Port Nicholson to set up a new mission there: Borjon, Rozet and Brother Deodat. Borjon and Deodat were sent off immediately, Rozet to be later. But he could now confirm as certain the news of Borjon’s and Deodat’s deaths at sea, near East Cape. He also wanted to visit the stations in the Bay of Plenty, but could not, for lack of funds. In his first interview with Forest, Pompallier bemoaned his lack of funds which he blamed on their being kept in France. Forest tried several times to disabuse him of this idea, but to no avail. Pompallier was also not happy about Forest’s status as “visitor”- he the Bishop, only, had the ability to “visit” the mission.''

			''However after some time tensions eased and at the end of December 1842 Forest was able to begin visiting the stations. He visited Auckland first, and was much impressed by what Father Petit-Jean had been able to do there in a few months. He met Mrs Louise Outhwaite, a Frenchwoman whose protestant husband worked at the Supreme Court, and was very generous to the Catholic mission. He sees Pèzant and Séon at Tauranga, and describes the “chateaux” in which the Marists live. He describes a little retreat that the Marists made there – Forest leading it. Séon and Pèzant get high praise as missionaries. Brother Euloge also gets praise. At Opotiki are Comte and Reignier. The difficulties of the bar entrance to the harbour are well described, and fervent prayers are needed. Comte gets high praise as a zealous missionary, but is seen to lack confidence in the Bishop, and Forest doesn’t have much effect in trying to show him otherwise. Their difficult living conditions are described, and what the missionaries need to take with them on a journey, particularly one without any Maori help. Problems in crossing rivers and harbours are demonstrated. The members of ASH would not be impressed favourably by the use of tobacco as currency! The problems associated with having to share a hut in a pa with the dogs which normally sleep in it; the lack of space, and the fleas!''


			''The return from Opotiki to the Bay of Islands via Tauranga and Auckland is quickly told. Altogether, this letter from Father Forest is an excellent description of the conditions that the early Marists had to work under.''

			''After their arrival in the Bay the annual retreat was made, Forest again preaching it. Totally in silence – in the Hokianga.''


			''Forest raises the matter of Father Petit-Jean’s letter, which he sees as intemperate, to an Auckland paper about what he alleges to have been unfair treatment by the New Zealand government in its refusing to give Father Petit-Jean a subsidy for building a chapel. Forest believes that the Bishop and M.Yvert, whom the Bishop has put in charge of temporalities, do not have a proper understanding of these things, which helps explain the difficult financial situation of the mission.''

			''Forest says that the missionaries in NZ are one in heart and soul, but things seem not so in the tropical islands of the mission.
			He says where the newly- arrived men are going, and something about the progress of the faith. Figures of the number of converts, (the Bishop’s) have been published in Europe and have been criticised as being exaggerated.''

			''He makes special mention of the situation of the Brothers. They generally are doing well, but have, like the Fathers, been crushed, a bit, by remarks from the Bishop, who sees them as servants, and, therefore, are not to eat at the same table as the priests. Some of the priests share this view – Fathers Comte and Petit are notable offenders he believes, but Father Petit-Jean and Pèzant the opposite. He makes brief comments on all the Brothers. He strongly believes that the Brothers should have a habit that distinguishes them not only from lay-people, but also from the priests. This would not just gain them more respect from lay-people, but would give them more pride in their own vocations.''

			''He finds himself in some way like the meat in a sandwich (my expression – BQ). When he’s with the priests, he hears complaints about the Bishop. And vice versa.''

			''A large statue of Mary and the infant Jesus has caused great wonderment among the Maori.''



	'''[[APM]] Z 208 26 March 1843 '''		'''[[APM]] Z 208 26 March 1843 '''

Merv: Created page with "== 26 Mar 1843 - Fr Forest to Fr Colin, Bay of Islands == ''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' Click here for Clisby's translation '''APM Z 208 26..."

2017-03-11T01:09:46Z

Created page with "== 26 Mar 1843 - Fr Forest to Fr Colin, Bay of Islands == ''Translated by Fr Brian Quin SM, July 2005'' Click here for Clisby's translation '''APM Z 208 26..."

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