Marist Studies:Current events - Revision history

Merv: /* Divine Providence - Blessings and Curses */

2022-12-08T20:16:00Z

Divine Providence - Blessings and Curses

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:16, 9 December 2022
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	==Divine Providence - Blessings and Curses==		==Divine Providence - Blessings and Curses==

	I am getting interested in the worldview of the Missionaries who expected the Almighty to immediately reward or punish, See for example this account by Claude Baty:		I am getting interested in the worldview of the Missionaries and the Maori who expected the Almighty to immediately reward or punish, See for example this account by Claude Baty:

	:*[[Girard0233\|'''0233''', 21 Jan 1843 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, Bay of Islands]]		:*[[Girard0233\|'''0233''', 21 Jan 1843 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, Bay of Islands]]
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	;[9]: On the 28th of February, I went to a kainga where a man, whom I may say is good, had allowed himself to be tempted in a moment of boredom and had let a European have his wife f(o)r a while for two pieces of clothing in poor condition. I lightly rebuked him; however, I could not bring him to burn these clothes in front of this European. I left, therefore, saddened by his stubbornness. On the 1st of March his wife fell very ill. I quickly went there and easily succeeded in obtaining all that I wanted; the clothes were thus burnt in front of this European whose anger I did not need to fear and the woman was cured a few days later. Another chief, who did not pray and would hire unfortunate women who could not resist in spite of their tears, having learnt the fact above, did not want {any longer} to do anything unfavourable to people who prayed; fearing for his life. Later a woman stole a little food from another; her husband who was one of the main chiefs was so ashamed that in spite of all that I could say to him, he wanted to stop praying. He went to look for Protestant books supposedly for the people in his tribe who were Protestants. On his return he found his eldest daughter sick; he became fervent again, more than before, however his child died a long time later without him being shaken in his good dispositions.		;[9]: On the 28th of February, I went to a kainga where a man, whom I may say is good, had allowed himself to be tempted in a moment of boredom and had let a European have his wife f(o)r a while for two pieces of clothing in poor condition. I lightly rebuked him; however, I could not bring him to burn these clothes in front of this European. I left, therefore, saddened by his stubbornness. On the 1st of March his wife fell very ill. I quickly went there and easily succeeded in obtaining all that I wanted; the clothes were thus burnt in front of this European whose anger I did not need to fear and the woman was cured a few days later. Another chief, who did not pray and would hire unfortunate women who could not resist in spite of their tears, having learnt the fact above, did not want {any longer} to do anything unfavourable to people who prayed; fearing for his life. Later a woman stole a little food from another; her husband who was one of the main chiefs was so ashamed that in spite of all that I could say to him, he wanted to stop praying. He went to look for Protestant books supposedly for the people in his tribe who were Protestants. On his return he found his eldest daughter sick; he became fervent again, more than before, however his child died a long time later without him being shaken in his good dispositions.

	;[10]: A native having behaved badly by mocking some Catholic rituals, I had to exclude him from the prayer without him changing for the better; he was with other young Catholics hired by a European to go whale hunting. The first whale that they hunted broke the boat in two in the open sea. He was the only one hurt; he had his arm broken below the shoulder. He hastened to repent and to pray again. After, his companions would not strike a whale without making the sign of the cross in spite of the rude words that the Europeans from their boat were directing at them.		;[10]: A native having behaved badly by mocking some Catholic rituals, I had to exclude him from the prayer without him changing for the better; he was with other young Catholics hired by a European to go whale hunting. The first whale that they hunted broke the boat in two in the open sea. He was the only one hurt; he had his arm broken below the shoulder. He hastened to repent and to pray again. After, his companions would not strike a whale without making the sign of the cross in spite of the rude words that the Europeans from their boat were directing at them.

	==Marist ideas of Salvation==		==Marist ideas of Salvation==

Merv at 20:15, 8 December 2022

2022-12-08T20:15:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:15, 9 December 2022
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			==Divine Providence - Blessings and Curses==

			I am getting interested in the worldview of the Missionaries who expected the Almighty to immediately reward or punish, See for example this account by Claude Baty:

			:*[[Girard0233\|'''0233''', 21 Jan 1843 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, Bay of Islands]]

			;[9]: On the 28th of February, I went to a kainga where a man, whom I may say is good, had allowed himself to be tempted in a moment of boredom and had let a European have his wife f(o)r a while for two pieces of clothing in poor condition. I lightly rebuked him; however, I could not bring him to burn these clothes in front of this European. I left, therefore, saddened by his stubbornness. On the 1st of March his wife fell very ill. I quickly went there and easily succeeded in obtaining all that I wanted; the clothes were thus burnt in front of this European whose anger I did not need to fear and the woman was cured a few days later. Another chief, who did not pray and would hire unfortunate women who could not resist in spite of their tears, having learnt the fact above, did not want {any longer} to do anything unfavourable to people who prayed; fearing for his life. Later a woman stole a little food from another; her husband who was one of the main chiefs was so ashamed that in spite of all that I could say to him, he wanted to stop praying. He went to look for Protestant books supposedly for the people in his tribe who were Protestants. On his return he found his eldest daughter sick; he became fervent again, more than before, however his child died a long time later without him being shaken in his good dispositions.

			;[10]: A native having behaved badly by mocking some Catholic rituals, I had to exclude him from the prayer without him changing for the better; he was with other young Catholics hired by a European to go whale hunting. The first whale that they hunted broke the boat in two in the open sea. He was the only one hurt; he had his arm broken below the shoulder. He hastened to repent and to pray again. After, his companions would not strike a whale without making the sign of the cross in spite of the rude words that the Europeans from their boat were directing at them.

	==Marist ideas of Salvation==		==Marist ideas of Salvation==
	Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that "you need to be Catholic to be saved" it is interesting to read what Fr Baty and Fr Petit-Jean have to say:		Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that "you need to be Catholic to be saved" it is interesting to read what Fr Baty and Fr Petit-Jean have to say:

Merv: /* Marist ideas of Salvation */

2022-09-01T22:05:48Z

Marist ideas of Salvation

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:05, 2 September 2022
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	:*[[Girard0107\|'''0107''', 09 Aug 1841 - Fr Jean-Baptiste Petit-Jean to Fr Jean-Claude Colin, Bay of Islands]]		:*[[Girard0107\|'''0107''', 09 Aug 1841 - Fr Jean-Baptiste Petit-Jean to Fr Jean-Claude Colin, Bay of Islands]]

	;[9]: We promise that all children amongst the Protestants who die having received baptism will go to heaven, that the adults of good faith, whose sins have been forgiven by true contrition can also achieve the same happiness because two types of person, although bound to a different way of thinking, nevertheless have inner bonds, understand the faith, the hope and the charity spread in their hearts by the holy spirit and, by these sacred bonds, belong to the soul of the church of Jesus Christ, which is the sole source of salvation.		;[3]: We promise that all children amongst the Protestants who die having received baptism will go to heaven, that the adults of good faith, whose sins have been forgiven by true contrition can also achieve the same happiness because two types of person, although bound to a different way of thinking, nevertheless have inner bonds, understand the faith, the hope and the charity spread in their hearts by the holy spirit and, by these sacred bonds, belong to the soul of the church of Jesus Christ, which is the sole source of salvation.

	==Purakau==		==Purakau==

Merv: /* Marist ideas of Salvation */

2022-08-06T02:58:00Z

Marist ideas of Salvation

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:58, 6 August 2022
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	==Marist ideas of Salvation==		==Marist ideas of Salvation==
	Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that "you need to be Catholic to be saved" it is interesting to read what Fr Baty ~~has~~ to say:		Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that "you need to be Catholic to be saved" it is interesting to read what Fr Baty and Fr Petit-Jean have to say:

	:*[[Girard0114\|'''0114''', 25,2 7 & 30 Oct 1841 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, East Cape]]		:*[[Girard0114\|'''0114''', 25,2 7 & 30 Oct 1841 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, East Cape]]

	;[10]: ... If you had been the first ones to arrive, we, the Protestant natives always say, we would all belong to you, but we were Protestant when you arrived. So that, while seeing the Catholic Church as the right and good one, nevertheless they cannot understand that God cannot approve of another one. It must be hoped for that a good number will be saved by good faith, but unfortunately a good number do not seem to be in good faith. God has other ways of bringing them to himself.		;[10]: ... If you had been the first ones to arrive, we, the Protestant natives always say, we would all belong to you, but we were Protestant when you arrived. So that, while seeing the Catholic Church as the right and good one, nevertheless they cannot understand that God cannot approve of another one. It must be hoped for that a good number will be saved by good faith, but unfortunately a good number do not seem to be in good faith. God has other ways of bringing them to himself.

			:*[[Girard0107\|'''0107''', 09 Aug 1841 - Fr Jean-Baptiste Petit-Jean to Fr Jean-Claude Colin, Bay of Islands]]

			;[9]: We promise that all children amongst the Protestants who die having received baptism will go to heaven, that the adults of good faith, whose sins have been forgiven by true contrition can also achieve the same happiness because two types of person, although bound to a different way of thinking, nevertheless have inner bonds, understand the faith, the hope and the charity spread in their hearts by the holy spirit and, by these sacred bonds, belong to the soul of the church of Jesus Christ, which is the sole source of salvation.

	==Purakau==		==Purakau==

Merv at 00:12, 5 August 2022

2022-08-05T00:12:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:12, 5 August 2022
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	==Marist ideas of Salvation==		==Marist ideas of Salvation==
	Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that you need to be Catholic to be saved it is interesting to read what Fr Baty has to say:		Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that "you need to be Catholic to be saved" it is interesting to read what Fr Baty has to say:

	:*[[Girard0114\|'''0114''', 25,2 7 & 30 Oct 1841 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, East Cape]]		:*[[Girard0114\|'''0114''', 25,2 7 & 30 Oct 1841 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, East Cape]]

Merv at 00:11, 5 August 2022

2022-08-05T00:11:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:11, 5 August 2022
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			==Marist ideas of Salvation==
			Given that nineteenth century missionaries are often asserted to have believed that you need to be Catholic to be saved it is interesting to read what Fr Baty has to say:

			:*[[Girard0114\|'''0114''', 25,2 7 & 30 Oct 1841 - Fr Claude-André Baty to Fr Claude Girard, East Cape]]

			;[10]: ... If you had been the first ones to arrive, we, the Protestant natives always say, we would all belong to you, but we were Protestant when you arrived. So that, while seeing the Catholic Church as the right and good one, nevertheless they cannot understand that God cannot approve of another one. It must be hoped for that a good number will be saved by good faith, but unfortunately a good number do not seem to be in good faith. God has other ways of bringing them to himself.

	==Purakau==		==Purakau==
	Mary Williamson has translated the letter of Fr Catherin Servant where he gives a description of the first mission station.		Mary Williamson has translated the letter of Fr Catherin Servant where he gives a description of the first mission station.

Merv: /* Purakau */

2021-01-04T09:13:52Z

Purakau

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:13, 4 January 2021
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	==Purakau==		==Purakau==
	Mary Williamson has translated the letter of Fr Catherin ~~servant~~ where he gives a description of the first mission station.		Mary Williamson has translated the letter of Fr Catherin Servant where he gives a description of the first mission station.
	:: Here is a short description of our establishment: Picture a small hill on the edge of a large river; almost all around there is bush. We have been obliged to fell some trees which were in front of the house to get a view over the river; at the top of the hill is an area covered with tall bracken which is difficult to stop growing; in the middle of this small hill one finds a wooden house, as it is difficult, at least in Hokianga, to build stone houses as there are not a lot of stones. In front of the house there is a small terrace where we can walk. Not far from the house some tribes have built huts to withdraw to when they come to Sunday mass. The area where we live is called, in the native’s language, pu rakau, which means the place that is all made of wood. Beautiful birds come to visit us from time to time, but their song is not as lovely as in France. The trees never lose their leaves. We do have here, in fact, some animals, a dog, two cats, some pigs and chickens, but that is all. The good brother here is beginning to establish a garden.		:: Here is a short description of our establishment: Picture a small hill on the edge of a large river; almost all around there is bush. We have been obliged to fell some trees which were in front of the house to get a view over the river; at the top of the hill is an area covered with tall bracken which is difficult to stop growing; in the middle of this small hill one finds a wooden house, as it is difficult, at least in Hokianga, to build stone houses as there are not a lot of stones. In front of the house there is a small terrace where we can walk. Not far from the house some tribes have built huts to withdraw to when they come to Sunday mass. The area where we live is called, in the native’s language, pu rakau, which means the place that is all made of wood. Beautiful birds come to visit us from time to time, but their song is not as lovely as in France. The trees never lose their leaves. We do have here, in fact, some animals, a dog, two cats, some pigs and chickens, but that is all. The good brother here is beginning to establish a garden.

Merv: /* Tatooing */

2020-02-21T21:32:23Z

Tatooing

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:32, 22 February 2020
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	*[[Girard0947\|Moreau, doc. 947]] [14], 1850.		*[[Girard0947\|Moreau, doc. 947]] [14], 1850.

	"Verguet was the most interested. The artist’s eye for patterning? Just at a quick glance, the ~~other res~~ just describe it briefly, without seeming to make any moral issue of it. Garin says they/we (“on” ) hope that it soon won’t be seen very much. ([[Girard0099\|99]] [69])."		"Verguet was the most interested. The artist’s eye for patterning? Just at a quick glance, the others just describe it briefly, without seeming to make any moral issue of it. Garin says they/we (“on” ) hope that it soon won’t be seen very much. ([[Girard0099\|99]] [69])."

	==Name removed from the Heart==		==Name removed from the Heart==

Merv at 21:29, 21 February 2020

2020-02-21T21:29:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:29, 22 February 2020
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			==Purakau==
			Mary Williamson has translated the letter of Fr Catherin servant where he gives a description of the first mission station.
			:: Here is a short description of our establishment: Picture a small hill on the edge of a large river; almost all around there is bush. We have been obliged to fell some trees which were in front of the house to get a view over the river; at the top of the hill is an area covered with tall bracken which is difficult to stop growing; in the middle of this small hill one finds a wooden house, as it is difficult, at least in Hokianga, to build stone houses as there are not a lot of stones. In front of the house there is a small terrace where we can walk. Not far from the house some tribes have built huts to withdraw to when they come to Sunday mass. The area where we live is called, in the native’s language, pu rakau, which means the place that is all made of wood. Beautiful birds come to visit us from time to time, but their song is not as lovely as in France. The trees never lose their leaves. We do have here, in fact, some animals, a dog, two cats, some pigs and chickens, but that is all. The good brother here is beginning to establish a garden.

			:*[[Girard0096\|'''0096''', 30 May 1841 - Fr Catherin Servant to his parents, Hokianga]]

	==Gaps in the Record==		==Gaps in the Record==
	In Helen Sturm's thesis submitted in 2018 she has this footnote on page 1:		In Helen Sturm's thesis submitted in 2018 she has this footnote on page 1:

Merv at 20:50, 21 May 2019

2019-05-21T20:50:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:50, 22 May 2019
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			==Gaps in the Record==
			In Helen Sturm's thesis submitted in 2018 she has this footnote on page 1:

			::Girard (2009) states the collection comprises all the letters received from Oceania by the Marist Fathers’ general administration, as well as letters sent to family and friends through the central house in Lyons from 1836 to 1854 (Vol.1, p.ix). However, it is clear that, for a variety of reasons, many letters went missing. An unexplained gap is evident in the letters written from New Zealand from 1846-1849 inclusive. Only ten letters have been published for this four-year period, an average of 2.5 letters per year, compared with an average of 24.8 letters per year over the remaining 13 years of the 1838-1854 period of the New Zealand LRO. Perhaps Pompallier’s absence from New Zealand 16 April, 1846, until he returned on 11 February, 1850, no longer responsible for the Marists, meant a reduction in conflict so fewer letters were written. Additionally, many letters may have been lost on unreliable ships, including frequently used whaling boats. It is also noteworthy that of the 333 New Zealand letters published in the LRO 1838-1854, only 16 were written to family members, although other letters might have been sent directly to family members, rather than through Colin.

	==Tatooing==		==Tatooing==
	Helen Sturm has noted that" it’s quite interesting how SELDOM tattooing is mentioned in the NZ LRO. A quick search of Girard has picked up:		Helen Sturm has noted that" it’s quite interesting how SELDOM tattooing is mentioned in the NZ LRO. A quick search of Girard has picked up: